How Can Storytelling Boost Your Marketing?

Benjamin Ard AI (00:00)
Here's a sneak peek of today's episode.

Joe (00:02)
There's all of these steps.

that some people who are interested in storytelling might say, maybe it's a little bit formulaic, but really it's about the deep framework that exists almost like a DNA in all of us of what is a great story. It's that journey of transformation. so the hero's journey really, it's a framework for someone living a tale, a journey, story that is

transforming them to achieve something great and become someone great. So it is a, it's a way of thinking. It's a, it's a part of our DNA. It's a, it's a framework for change and transformation.

Ben (00:44)
I love that.

Welcome back to another episode of Content Amplified. Today I'm joined by Joe. Joe, welcome to the show.

Joe (01:15)
Thanks man, really excited to be here.

Ben (01:16)
Yeah, Joe, I'm excited for this conversation. It's going to be a ton of fun. But before we dive into it, let's get to know you. Tell us about your background and what you love about content and marketing.

Joe (01:26)
Yeah, I'm happy to do that. And one of the things I love about content, it really relates to my background as a storyteller. And I actually have an MFA in creative writing at Florida International University, amazing school. People like Dennis Lahane came out of there, Jonathan Scoffrey on the undergrad program, really a legacy of great storytelling. And I also was a journalist when I was in my early 20s, wrote for the LA Times, LA Weekly.

a lot of really featured based storytelling. you know, it just really absolutely fell in love with, you know, telling stories. And so when I think about content and when I think about marketing, at the core of what I believe great content is, storytelling. It's about, you know, connecting with people through stories. I think a lot of people in marketing, they get a little lost in

You know, the features, the elements, the higher education, how long a degree takes. You know, but for me, you know, a really great piece of content. When I get excited about content, it is that is that story component of it. And when I think about content for, you know, in terms of digital marketing, I get really excited about what marketing is today because it is on the channel. It is multiple.

touch points and when you think about your ability to tell a story, it's not just one ad, it's not just one email, it's not just one landing page, not one video, it's an ecosystem all working together. And when you're able to use automation, when you're able to leverage paid advertising in sophisticated ways.

No, it does bring together an ecosystem of content and ecosystem of storytelling. you know, it really reminds me a lot of, of comic books. you know, when my friend was telling me about Congress, I didn't like comic books in graduate school. thought that if we're just kids, was silly to think that way. But he kind of explained to me, like, Hey, each one of these blocks, you know, there's white space in between. And, know, you, as a reader, you're filling in those.

white space with story, you're creating, you're part of creating that story just by falling piece to piece. And I think that's what, when you think about content in its totality across all of these different touch points and channels and, if you think that way and can build something, you know, special and unique, you're doing something different than everybody else.

And that sort of philosophy Ben is what has driven me. And I've been a higher education marketing professional for almost 12 years. I started out after I was a journalist and I was mentioned in two weeks before the call. Really, it was hard in my early 20s to make a living as a journalist. I wrote for some incredible publications, but just...

trying to raise a family, trying to do what you can't. It was just, it was a struggle. And I ultimately joined a startup called Circa Interactive with my brother-in-law and two other really good friends. And it was a very exciting time. We started out as an SEO agency and it really blossomed to offer digital PR services, storytelling services, branding, marketing strategy, performance, marketing.

And we did this for Tulane University, American University, Harvard Kennedy School. And it was a wild ride. We grew to 50 and then we were ultimately acquired by an amazing company called Archer Education. And I was there for a bit and got recruited by BISC, which is where I was at previously. And I ran that marketing department and we work with Michigan State and Villanova University. And yeah, what I really...

you know, realized Ben was that my heart is in startups. My heart is in storytelling. And I recently went and started a company called Campbell Learn. And, you know, really it's about building that exact thing I was talking about at the beginning of this call is that ecosystem of touch points across the enrollment journey and really partnering with universities and OPMs to provide that as a solution. So

You know, my personal journey, started out as storytelling. It started out in higher education, a field I'm really passionate about. you know, that's a little bit about me and what I care about.

Ben (06:01)
I love it. That's amazing.

And I love your description of content and marketing and its impact overall. think that there's a lot of value there. And really that's what we're going to be talking about today for the episode. We're going to talk about the hero's journey. So Joe, real quickly, what is the hero's journey? What does that mean? What kind of storytelling is involved with the hero's journey?

Joe (06:23)
Well, think to give you a little bit of a story to articulate it and then I'll go into it. You know, when I was in graduate school, I was, you know, my, my journey is just, you know, build companies and write books. And I was sitting there in school trying to figure out how to write a novel. And my professor could see I was struggling. His name was Les Stanford. And he sent me this book by Chris Vogler and

You know, it was about how all of these movies, you every single movie you can think of, Blockbusters, know, romantic comedy, everything that we watch and consume and love, Harry Potter, Star Wars, you name it. There was a structure underlying all of those stories that this individual who wrote this book was trying to get us to understand so we could make our own stories. And as I dove in deeper and deeper,

everything that this guy was talking about came from Joseph Campbell, a writer, professor, sociologist. And what he did is he went out and studied myths from all over the world, you know, all as many myths as he possibly could from fairy tales to origin stories. And what he realized was that there is a pattern to all of these stories.

that are kind of founded all the way back to when we were living in caves and going on hunts, and that there was a pattern that existed. So the hero's journey is really a storytelling structure, a mythic structure that exists underneath all of these great movies, these great stories, these great journeys, and it starts with a hero.

who is in a normal world. Think about Harry Potter before he found out he was a wizard or Luke Skywalker before, when he was, I think it was a moisture farmer. They live in this ordinary world and then there's a call to adventure. Something that shocks them out of their existence and says, there's something bigger and you meet the mentor and you cross the threshold.

There's all of these steps.

that some people who are interested in storytelling might say, maybe it's a little bit formulaic, but really it's about the deep framework that exists almost like a DNA in all of us of what is a great story. It's that journey of transformation. so the hero's journey really, it's a framework for someone living a tale, a journey, story that is

transforming them to achieve something great and become someone great. So it is a, it's a way of thinking. It's a, it's a part of our DNA. It's a, it's a framework for change and transformation.

Ben (09:16)
I love that.

That's amazing. That's probably one of the best descriptions I've ever heard of the hero's journey. And I love how you told a story along with that and those different elements. So the first question that naturally comes to mind

How can we translate this to business? How can we take the hero's journey and really build a content strategy through that? How does that work? How does that, know, cause you talked about Star Wars and Harry Potter, but what about the SEO firm or the SaaS company or the whatever? How can they implement the same strategy and framework?

Joe (09:49)
Yeah, it's funny. I've had moments in my career where I was confronted with people who were more on the business strategy side when I was younger. And they're like, this is fluff. What does this really mean to business results? And to me, what I've seen over and over and over again is that it actually does translate to specific KPIs. It is how you reduce cost of acquisition. It is how you increase sales.

And really it's taking this framework and instead of, you know, selling your product, you know, you're doing what great advertising does. You're doing what great storytelling does is you're really thinking deeply about the person using your product. You're making them the hero of this story. And you're thinking about the problems that they're trying to solve in their life. What's their ordinary world? Where are they today?

And ultimately, what's that called adventure that's going to get them to, I hate to say it this way, but it sounds a little bit trite, to buy, to go through that journey, to go through that experience. And when you start taking that framework and start thinking about your customer as the hero, well, you can start to understand how to build content. I'm going to give you a little example about this. When I was working with American University, we were talking with some of their

you know, students who went through the experience and became an enrollment. And I think what's, what's key here, Ben too, is I'm talking about higher education. That's, that's my field. And the hero's journey is so important because higher education, when you're selling that you're selling master's degree program, undergraduate programs, there's a long decision-making process, but you're not just selling, you know, something on Etsy. You're selling, yes, an education program, but

Ben (11:20)
Okay.

Joe (11:38)
deeper than that, you're selling transformation. You're selling, hey, I'm in this state today. I want to invest $50,000, $30,000, $150,000. Why? Because I want to become a different person. And so a lot of higher education, what I see them doing is that the imagery is like thumbs up or sitting in front of a computer or, hey, this degree is only two years.

You can get it done in two months. This degree will get you a better career. Well, it's not really thinking about the student and who they are. And so I'll never forget this one experience. We were working at American University School of Education, marketing a master's in education policy program. And I was talking to one of the students to do an interview and she was telling us about the experience.

Ben (12:16)
Mm-hmm.

Joe (12:31)
where she encountered her ad and she ultimately decided that she wanted to enroll. And it all started for her the day that she found out she couldn't have children. She was at the doctor's and her husband and her were trying to have a baby and they found out they couldn't. And she was devastated, absolutely crushed. And so she went home and trying to figure out what's next and her husband decided to take in a foster child.

She brings that foster child home, gives that foster child all the love in the world you possibly can. And as that child grows up and gets bigger, she starts realizing that there's some learning challenges. And ultimately, she finds out that her foster child has autism. And so she's reading and reading and reading about autism. And all of sudden she just says, you know what? I think that this is a calling for me.

give you a little bit of a foreshadowing here. It was her call to adventure. She realized how much she loved reading and she went to school and became an interventionist in the classroom. And she was working in special education classes in these public school systems. And what she realized I can't do anything here. I am...

so overwhelmed because of our lack of resources, our lack of support that I don't feel like I can change anything. And it was at that time that she actually saw one of our ads and it was this campaign called Raise Your Hand If You Want to Transform Education for Everyone. And basically it's American University and you know, it's a school of education. came up with this campaign to, you know, propel people on their journey to create a mission saying, hey,

We as American university, we care about equity. We care about transforming education for everyone. We are a lot like, you know, our name. We want to be the great beacon, the great equalizer that really helps so many people, you know, become, you know, a better version of themselves, create an equitable school system. And we want to train the people who are going to be doing that. And she ultimately raised her hand and says, wow.

I can actually make more of an impact through policy than I can in the classroom. I'm going to go to school so I can do what I can for that foster child that I have, but times 20 times a hundred and maximize that. So I'm telling you this because this student journey, know, this, this Campbell, know, Joseph Campbell's hero structure is if you go through your audience and you think about them in their ordinary world.

Where are they? Well, when you think about that ordinary world, you can understand their problems, what's in their way, what's getting in their way from taking a next step to becoming the future version of those through education. But you also begin to understand customer segmentation. know, for instance, this person was working as a teacher. Well, policymakers can be working at a nonprofit. They can be all of these different areas. Each one of them has a different problem they're trying to solve.

And then ultimately you begin to think about your call to adventure and that's your ad. Really, what is it that's going to help them see, especially in higher education, I think this is really important. What is that piece of content that's going to stop them in their tracks and help them realize their calling, their journey, their next step? And then ultimately the mentor in this case, when you meet, is the university.

But what I think is really compelling about this, when you start thinking about creating content in this lens, you know, to help them take the steps in their journey, well, not only are you creating a touch point at the beginning of that ad experience, you're building an entire ecosystem now, thinking about that student journey, all of those touch points along the way is how do I craft emails, know, landing pages?

Ultimately to get them to continue. You got a call to adventure, but it doesn't stop there. It's hard. It's hard to make change. It's hard to get an education. It's hard to overcome obstacles. But how do I remind you of that thing that is bigger than yourself? How do I remind you of why you took this step? How do I create videos along the way? How do I bring in the Dean of the school and their message?

And it's not to say that these emotional messages are the only thing that matters, but it's what separates you in the market. It's what makes you different. It's what connects you on an individual level. Now, okay, great. Joe, you told me about this framework. You told me about emotionally connecting with you, but what about the business outcomes? Well, when you are writing and creating content that is engaging at the top of the funnel, you know,

especially with how automated paid advertising is getting. You have to stand out and speak to your audience through content and creative. And if you're doing content and creative well, then your cost per lead is dropping. But the truth is that everybody can get a favorable cost per lead. It's not rocket science anymore. I do think that great creative helps you reduce your cost, increase your leads.

On the landing pages, great creative and great storytelling. It helps you improve your conversion rates. But when you're in that funnel, when you are deciding between 50,000 at X school, between 50,000 at Y school, you've got to give them a reason. And you've got to give them content across all of those key decision-making areas that are building that connection. And what that ultimately helps you do, if you're building that ecosystem right, you are

you know, mapping out your customer experience, you're creating the compelling content, you're building an advertising and automation structure that supports that experience. Well, you're going to increase your sales, you're going to increase your enrollments and you're going to drop your cost per acquisition because throughout that whole experience, you're converting more, you're doing more in the middle and the bottom of funnel. And honestly, I think that's where the great university marketers and you

probably beyond that enrollment markers. They win in the middle and bottom of funnel. And how do you win in the middle and bottom of funnel? Is you get people to care. You get people to remember you. You go beyond facts and data points as you create that connection because there's just so much noise. So much noise and story and content that thinks this way.

It cuts through all that and it cuts through your expenses and it increases your sales. That's fundamentally what I believe.

Ben (19:22)
I love that. And normally on the episodes we ask a lot of questions, but I am just amazed at this. And I think this is such a good description and I love.

the passion and the care and really telling this journey and story for every step of the journey. And I love it, Joe, this is amazing. Unfortunately, we're out of time, but if anyone wants to reach out and further this conversation with you online, how and where can they find you?

Joe (19:45)
Yeah.

Yep. Go to Campbelllearn.com or reach out to me at Joseph Lappin on Twitter or find me on LinkedIn at Joseph Lappin. And yeah, I'd love to sit down and talk to you about how this framework can help you improve your enrollment journey and also just get to know people too. So that's how you can find them.

Ben (20:12)
I love it. Well, Joe, again, thank you so much for the time and insights today.

Joe (20:15)
Yeah, my pleasure.

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